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"It Ain't Nearly Over"
- So
Says Bob Prechter, But He Maps Out Survival Plan
The
following excerpt was taken from an interview with Bob Prechter, author
of
Conquer the
Crash:
You Can Survive and Prosper in a Deflationary Depression
This
Q&A was conducted by veteran interviewer Kathryn M. Welling, formerly of
Barron’s and now with Weeden & Co., an international institutional
brokerage firm headquartered in Greenwich, CT.
June
28, 2002 DJIA 9,243
[ ]
What’s the point of your new book
(Conquer the Crash)
—depressing as many people as possible?
Quite the contrary. What I am trying to do is get people to safety,
rather than being
outrageously exposed to the risks in today’s markets.
Risks? What risks? For all the frauds and volatility, the Dow was still
hanging tough in
the 9,000-10,000 zone—at least until Wednesday.
It
all depends on your timeframe. One of the reasons I am putting my book
out now is that I
think people do still have time to act. The Dow is still relatively near
10,000. People say you
have to hold stocks for the long term. But you can also hold cash. Not
necessarily for the
long term, but certainly while the major trend is down.
Did you say “cash?”
“Cash isn’t trash.”
Let’s get serious here. We are, depending on how you figure it, as much
as three or
even five years into this bear market. Loads of damage has been done.
Why come out
with a book about conquering a crash now?
Well, when I want to tell people that I have been bearish for a while, I
explain that the top
occurred in April of 1998 when the A/D line and the Value Line Geometric
Average topped
out. But most people date the top, as I would, as the first quarter of
2000, when the major
averages peaked. I guess a few people even have noticed that the Value
Line Arithmetic and
the S&P 600 mid-cap indexes did not top until April 2002. But any way
you want to look at
it, the market has had at least three major tops in the last four
years—and I think we are
bumping up against that third and last top. If you look at all three as
part of one distribution
pattern, as I do, then we are at the peak of the right shoulder. Which
means this is actually a
very good time to become bearish, if you haven’t already.
So it’s still not too late? Which implies lots more downside—
Well, it would have helped most people to turn bearish earlier. The
problem is that no one,
in 1999 or 2000, outside of my own readership and a few others’ would
have been at all
interested in selling. I’ve already published all of my ideas for
protecting your investments
and also for profiting from short-selling in my newsletters and on my
website. There are
many ways to do it. But to get the message to the general public, the
only way to succeed
with a book is to publish it when at least there is a glimmer of
acceptance of your thesis—
when it has a shred of credibility—and you can’t do that at a major top.
People are buying
“Dow 36,000” books at that point. It would be useless to wait another
two years, because we
should be working our way into the bottom around that time. I think this
is an excellent time
to publish a book for the average person who has just begun to wonder if
maybe stocks do
not always go up forever, year-after-year, at a double-digit rate.
Order
Conquer the
Crash
now
and you
can download
Chapter One
Click Here
Current special discount applies
Maybe. But people have really been sold on the idea that they’re
invested “for the
long-term.”
Yes, and that is exactly what this book is written to address. There are
two chapters in it that
explore the current, still-outrageous overvaluation in the market and
also the current, still extremely
bullish public sentiment.
There’s no chance I can get you to call the nastiness we’ve been
witnessing “the
bottom?”
No.
Well, we may be making a short-term one, but nothing more. We’ve got a
really high
level of short sales by the commercials in the S&P and we still have a
pretty high level of
longs in the S&P by the small traders, which represent the public. Those
are the kinds of
indicators that you would want to see in the opposite position before
calling a major stock
market bottom—and I would be more than happy to do that, if indicators
like that were
bullish. But in fact they have gotten worse since the top in 2000.
Another indicator that is
widely recognized as having gotten substantially worse is the P/E ratio.
So you are going to stick to being a contrarian.
That got me in quite a bit of trouble in the 90’s. When people ask why,
after predicting a
massive bull market, I didn’t stay a screaming bull all the way, my
response is that I really
have a problem with sticking with a crowd that I think is really stupid.
That proved a
drawback because every century or so you can get the kind of sustained
overvaluation that
we had in the 1990s. But I think the piper has to be paid, and so I am
very patient.
In
studying all of the major manias, I had to go back to tulips to find a
more outrageous
overvaluation. I was fascinated to find, by the way, that none other
than Graham and Dodd
wrote that the focus of investors in the Roaring ’Twenties was
improperly placed, not on
earnings relative to stock price or earnings relative to the size of the
company or profit
margins, but only on the question of whether earnings went up in each
reporting period. It
just goes to show you that very little changes. We’re going through a
repeat scenario—
except for extent, which this time is much greater, and duration (this
mania lasted much
longer), which was my big problem.
Okay, your first reason for warning about a crash now is the Elliott
wave cycle. But
gosh knows that can be interpreted in myriad ways. Its timing is
anything but precise,
as you’ve certainly demonstrated.
Actually, many times it is. There were long periods in the ’80s when a
lot of the patterns I
saw worked out to the day. The thing I like the most in this book (it is
probably only going
to make me happy, not anybody else) is a comparison of the advance from
1921 to 1929 to
the move, shown immediately underneath, from 1974 to 2000. They look
almost identical in
virtually every wiggle. The thing about the Elliott wave pattern, which
we say in every
paper and every book, is that its timing is elastic and its extent is
elastic. What stays the
same is form. I did recognize at the time that from 1974, we essentially
were living through
the
1920s. What I did not anticipate was that the move would be a triple in
both time and
price. It took three times as long and went three times as high on a
percentage basis. But the
form was the same, so even I am still learning about the Elliott wave at
my old age. If you
look at the Elliott wave on a chart of the global bull market—the world
stock index—it
traces out the textbook pattern. We have had the first leg down. Maybe
we will have some
recovery. Maybe we will be lucky and get a summer rally. That’s fine. It
just means that
whoever really does want to protect himself or herself is going to have
a window of
opportunity to do it. But I certainly would not delay. During the mania
every surprise was
on the upside, and during this bear market the bigger surprises are
going to occur on the
downside when people are not looking, so you have to be early.
Order
Conquer the
Crash
now
and you
can download
Chapter One
Click Here
Current special discount applies
Just a rally? Most people are still trying to catch the bottom.
Right. People always say bearish is bad. First, I don’t believe that,
philosophically. But
okay. Say you are a bull and you like stock bargains. Can you imagine
the opportunities that
you would have had if, in December of 1968, you had exited the stock
market and done
absolutely nothing but collect interest until October or December of
1974? By then, stocks
that had previously been selling at 85 were down to three-quarters of a
dollar. After that,
when they went to 19, you made real money. In the 1990s, people would
try to buy stocks at
140 and hope they went to 190—which was not exactly a great return from
a percentage
point of view. But if you can buy extremely undervalued stocks, at or
near the lows of a
major debacle in stock prices, you can make more than enough for you and
all your
progeny. And thereby, of course, ruin their characters. There are
several historical examples
of
wealthy dynasties founded by people who held cash through the Crash of
’29 and after,
finally buying in 1932 or 1933, and building fortunes that lasted
through generations. I
would not necessarily recommend that but it is better to make money than
lose it.
But that (horrors!) implies doing more than a little market timing.
Well, let me cross my fingers and ward off the vampire.
But will that work on all the academic studies saying timing is a crock?
They were all done in the late ’90s
Using data going all the way back to—
1982, generally. But if they were done by real historical types, they
might have used data
back to 1949. Just outrageous. There actually are some studies coming
out now that show
market timing is doing pretty well. My interest is in the social
psychology of this, and you
can generally say that when markets go down or sideways for a long
period lasting years,
market timing becomes popular and cycles become an important topic among
people.
Harvard economics professors issue statements such as, “The most
important economic tool
in the history of the world is the Kondratieff Wave Cycle.” But then,
after long periods of
advances in bull markets, you get the opposite. People say, “Cycles
don’t exist. Market
timing is a waste of energy. You should only buy and hold.” Those are
phenomena that are
part and parcel of where you are in the cycles. Anyway, it was in
October of 1982 that I said
we are going to have to switch from a timing mentality to a buy and hold
mentality. Little
did I know that I should have held a lot longer—but at least I had the
idea at a good time.
If only you had paid more attention to your own advice.
Well I got a lot out of it, but yes the bull market went a whole lot
further and longer than I
thought. But I don’t know that I should have to be defensive. I don’t
remember anyone else
coming out with big number predictions about the bull market until the
Dow crossed about
5000.
Now your prediction couldn’t be more opposite. And your book makes
specific
suggestions about ways for investors to find shelter from the bear
market/deflation/depression you see?
Exactly. I don’t just say “go to cash,” because the questions today are
what cash and where
do you keep it? Two incredibly important questions. We know from history
that at the
bottom of major market crashes, they tend to close banks.
Let me guess, you don’t suggest a safe deposit box in a New York City
bank.
No.
The fireplace would be safer in the winter. In fact, the book lists the
two safest banks in
each state. Also, some of the safer banks in the entire country. None of
the major money
center banks made those lists. The safer banks tend to be small. They
tend to be rather
conservative. They tend to have a lot of Treasury bills in their
holdings because, believe it or
not, some bank managements actually are somewhat concerned and not
willing to speculate
in derivatives and lend out all of their money to questionable
enterprises.
Order
Conquer the
Crash
now
and you
can download
Chapter One
Click Here
Current special discount applies
In other words, you suggest some of the sleepiest banks in the country—
Yes, although as we found out in the S&L debacle, some of the ones that
look sleepy from
the outside can have an orgy going on inside. So you do need to check
the figures. But I also
think that if you have substantial capital to protect, you should look
overseas at truly
conservation-oriented banks, most of which are found in Switzerland and
Singapore. It
doesn’t hurt to be conservative. There is nothing to lose by using these
as a safe haven. Of
course, you still need a transactional bank, too. Then there is the big
question of which
currency to be in. That is going to require people to have a market
opinion and make a
decision. Just to take this one step further, I don’t think it is a bad
idea —even though I am
not really bullish on the precious metals —to have a position in gold
and silver and perhaps
platinum, as well. In fact, it is foolish in a world of paper currencies
not to. For one thing, it
is currently legal.
Are you implying that may change?
Well it is good to take opportunities when you have them. For example,
back in 1998 I
recommended to my subscribers that they look into a bank which at the
time was ranked by
more than one source as the single safest bank in the United States. I
opened an account
there and a number of subscribers did as well. Then, a few years later
it announced that they
were taking no more out-of-state accounts. They are conservative and
want everything under
their little umbrella. So those doors closed. Unless you act when you
can, you may find
some doors closing to you.
Let’s switch focus to institutional investors. Your economic and market
forecasts imply
very rough times ahead for portfolio managers.
Very difficult. But the first thing they can do is protect their own
cash. Believe me, I
sympathize with, for instance, mutual fund managers who have to be
heavily invested all the
time; in organizations where being a “bear” means somebody who is only
92% in stocks. It
will be very difficult to weather the kind of thing I see developing
simply by being a good
stock picker.
There is an old adage that says 60% of stocks go up in a bull market and
90%
go down in a bear. That is an over-generalization, but it does roughly
indicate how difficult
it would be to choose stocks that buck the trend to a degree that would
keep you from losing money. It is not easy. But there are managers who
will hedge with options, for example. Of
course, that is a cost, as well. But if you can do that with leaps or
options and you are
willing to bear the cost of rolling your hedges over for 2, maybe 2 ½
years, your fund will
do a lot better. Of course, if you are a hedge fund manager, you don’t
have a problem
because you can play the downside as well. There are many managers who
are very good at
that. In fact I have a great strategy in the book for people who don’t
agree with me. It’s a
market neutral strategy whereby you pick some of the best money managers
in the country
or in the world who have proven their ability to pick stocks on the long
side and give those
managers half of your capital. Then you give the other half to managers
that have a proven
track record of picking overvalued, ridiculously priced stocks for
selling short. So
whichever turn the market takes, one side should make a lot of money,
and presumably the
other manager won’t lose a lot because of his expertise. So there are
many ways to approach
this without just saying, “short General Electric,” which was a great
idea in late 2000.
I’m getting the impression you’re not a big fan of banks and financial
stocks here.
I
really am not a stock picker, but one group that has benefited from the
credit bubble is the
banking group, and at some point they will also reap the other side of
the bell curve.
Order
Conquer the
Crash
now
and you
can download
Chapter One
Click Here
Current special discount applies
You devote several chapters to the Fed and the credit bubble’s role in
setting the stage
of the deflation you see developing.
I
tried to adopt a neutral tone in that discussion, avoiding hyperbole and
epithets or anything
of that sort. What I tried to do was relate, as they say, the true
history of money in the
United States. And the Fed plays a major role as the money and credit
engine. It is not quite
as nefarious, certainly from the point of view of intention, as many of
its enemies declare.
Most of the people in the Fed and most of its fans among economists
believe it is there to do
good things. But it isn’t doing good things in the long run because
every major credit
inflation has always ended in a commensurate bust. And this is the
greatest credit inflation
probably in the history of man.
Isn’t it supposed to act as a governor on the system, smoothing things
out?
That’s supposedly one of its jobs. But the story of the Fed from the
beginning is a history of
making credit easy to obtain. It rarely purposely goes in and makes
credit difficult to obtain.
It only does that, in fact, when it is forced to the wall as it was in
the early ’80s, for example,
by the inflation trend. Another of the Fed’s jobs is to monetize
government debt so the
government can get money for nothing.
No small matter. Most folks are absolutely convinced that the Fed would
do whatever
it takes to fend off another depression or deflation—and that it would
inevitably
succeed.
I
have no doubt it would try, but what we have now is a massive amount of
credit
outstanding relative to the actual money— and today money is really only
the federal
reserve notes in circulation.
Which are nothing but government IOUs.
That is the tricky part because the dollar itself is nothing but a
credit against future tax
returns, and you’re only promised another dollar in its place. In other
words, the dollar is
actually a mental construct, whereas through much of history, money was
physical. The
Fed’s primary role used to be creating Federal Reserve notes to monetize
the federal
government’s bonds. And by monetize I mean turn it into money. So the
government
borrows, but in actual fact gets free money in return that it can go out
and spend. Yet the
borrowing never goes anywhere because it is a reserve of the Federal
Reserve Bank. But
that role has actually diminished substantially.
The
much greater role of the Fed in the last
25 years has been to facilitate the expansion of credit. It used to be
that banks were required
to hold a certain percentage of their deposits as reserves. They could
not lend them out.
Very quietly in the early 1990s, the Fed de facto removed the
requirements to hold reserves.
They did that by saying, “You need to hold reserves only against
checking accounts.” So
every night, banks sweep their checking accounts into other accounts—and
so they don’t
need any reserves. This has allowed banks to lend out all of their
deposits. What then
happens is that those loans get deposited in other banks, and those
other banks say, look,
we’ve got all these new deposits. Isn’t this nice? And they lend them
out, so the multiplier
becomes infinite. The only question is how much debt service can the
economy stand? I
think the answer today is “no more.” We are at the limit. But as I say
in the book, money is
a
big ocean. Central bankers are pretty ingenious.
Maybe there is something I am missing.
But I doubt it. We have just witnessed the termination of the great
mania of the 1980s and
’90s. All prior great deflations were preceded by exactly such a mania.
Reprinted with permission, copyright 2002, welling@weeden, all rights
reserved.
For more information, please see
http://welling.weedenco.com or call 203-861-9814.
Order
Conquer the
Crash
now
and you
can download
Chapter One
Click Here
Current special discount applies
A Financial Crisis You See
Coming
Is
a Crisis You Can
Avoid
“Prechter’s
advice will surely be used
in my own investing.”
- Lawrence G
McMillan,
The Options
Strategist
It’s also
the greatest opportunity of your life.
What if Japanese
investors in 1989 had a book to prepare them for
that nation’s looming economic DEFLATION and 12-year bear
market? What if American investors in 1929 had a book to prepare
them
for the stock market CRASH and The Great Depression?
They could have used the forecast to prepare themselves — even to
come out ahead. Robert Prechter just published a book that will
prepare YOU for the crisis in our financial future — a deflationary
depression that will wipe out the portfolios of most stock market,
bond market and real estate investors.
Conquer
the Crash
first presents the economic
facts
that
show why
a massive deflation is
inevitable. The second part is
practical
— virtually
each of the 21 chapter titles explains "How To," "What To" and
"Should You."
Learn more by
going to
elliottwave.com
today.
Hurry.
Our
analysis indicates that this massive deflation is already
underway.
Here’s what others are saying:
"Prechter will go down in history as a legend for having
predicted
the secular bull market and now having provided a lucid
description of the economic cataclysm that unfortunately
lies
ahead. Reading this book could make the difference
between agony
and comfort over the next twenty years."
- David Tice, Prudent Bear Fund
"A
must-read book"
- Martin D Weiss, Ph.D., author of the national best
seller, the
Ultimate Safe Money Guide
"Whether you trade
stocks, bonds, commodities or options,
you
will find valuable advice
in this book. It will have a permanent
spot on my own bookshelf next to Prechter's earlier
classic, At the
Crest of the Tidal Wave. Prechter's advice will surely be
used in my
own investing."
- Lawrence G. McMillan, The Options Strategist
Visit
http://www.elliottwave.com/conquer
to order.
Available at all book outlets now. Better yet, order from the link below
and instantly download Chapter 1.
Copyright 2002 Elliott Wave
International
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